[Danikka]
Hey there, welcome to the Snailed It podcast with Danikka and Erin, brought to you by Authors Own Publishing.

Hi everyone, before we get started today, this is future Danikka jumping in with a note that this episode was recorded prior to the allegations being made against the narrator and producer of the Butcher and Blackbird audiobook Joe Ardern coming to Light. We just wanted to make it clear that we stand behind victims of misconduct of any kind and have included links to support information in the show notes and on the podcast web page for this episode for any listeners affected by similar issues.

We hope you enjoy the references to the book in this episode and understand that we can only know what we know at the time of recording. Thanks so much.

[Erin]
Hi everyone, welcome back to the Snailed It podcast with Danikka and Erin. Today we are talking Butcher and Blackbird, which was our second, third buddy read.

[Danikka]
It’s our second buddy read, yeah.

[Erin]
Yeah, well kind of third, well Iron Flame and Fourth Wing were kind of it.

[Danikka]
Yeah, they were like a joint one, yeah.

[Erin]
Yeah, so we have both read Butcher and Blackbird. I read it in paperback.

[Danikka]
I read it as an audiobook.

[Erin]
Yeah, so you got to enjoy Rowan’s Irish accent. I listened to a sample and went damn it, I should have got it on audio.

Anyway, so for those of you who don’t know, Butcher and Blackbird is a book about serial killers.

[Danikka]
That kill other serial killers.

[Erin]
So as like a content warning from the start, if you are not good with gore etc, this is probably not the book and or episode for you.

[Danikka]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there will be spoilers. Yeah, buddy read episodes as they rule, there is spoilers, all the spoilers.

[Erin]
So what should we start with? Maybe I’ll read the blurb and then I will read the trigger warning, content warning list.

[Danikka]
Yes, yes. Okay, so Butcher and Blackbird, who’s the book by to begin with?

[Erin]
The book is by Brynne Weaver, who I had actually not heard of before this book.

[Danikka]
I have neither.

[Erin]
This is the first one of hers I had read. Yeah, okay, so the blurb.

Every serial killer needs a friend. Every game must have a winner. When a chance encounter sparks an unlikely bond between rival murderers, Sloane and Rowan, the two find something elusive.

The friendship of a like-minded pitch black soul. Stalking across the country, the two hunters collide in an annual game of blood and suffering, one that pits them against the most dangerous monsters in the country. But as their friendship develops into something deeper, the restless ghosts left in their wake are only a few steps behind, ready to claim more than just their newfound romance.

Can Rowan and Sloane dig themselves out of a game of graves, graves, or have they finally met their match?

So that actually doesn’t tell you very much about it, does it?

It really doesn’t.

I didn’t read the blurb. I didn’t read the blurb before I started, full disclosure, because Danikka listened to it first and basically screamed at me that I needed to read it.

[Danikka]Yeah, I was like, Erin, read this.

[Erin]
Read this book! Okay, so then from there, I think this will probably tell us a little bit more. Oh god, so just the content trigger warnings goes for an entire page.

[Danikka]
Yeah, so I didn’t read the blurb either. So Steph, our podcast manager for Authors Own, for the Snailed It podcast, and my admin assistant at Authors Own, she literally was at my house and she just played the content warnings for me in Rowan’s voice.
I’m in.

Yeah, and I just, I literally, I literally just got it. Immediately. And started listening to the book the same day. So I haven’t, I didn’t read the blurb either. I literally just listened to the content warnings in the voices.

I mean, maybe you can get an idea of the book with the content warnings. So the content warnings, as much as Butcher and Blackbird is a dark romantic comedy and will hopefully make you laugh through the madness, it’s still dark. Please read responsibly. If you have questions, contact me at Brynne Weaver.

So the first one, eyeballs and eye sockets, amateur surgery, skin ornaments, chainsaws, axes, knives, scalpels, a lot of sharp objects, accidental cannibalism, not so accidental cannibalism, questionable use of a mummified corpse, lobotomized man servant, ill-advised use of kitchen implements. I’m sorry about the cookies and cream ice cream. I’m not really.

Detailed sex scene, which includes, but is not limited to, cock warming, rough sex, praise king, anal, adult toys, choking, spitting, dom-sub interactions, genital piercings, references to parental neglect and child abuse, parental loss, not depicted, references to child sexual assault, not in detail. It’s a book about serial killers. So there’s generally messed up murder and chaos.

That pretty much sums it up.

[Danikka]
That sums it up way better than the blurb. I’d be interested to know what Jessie thought of that blurb after hearing this.

[Erin]
Same. Yes, we need to talk to her. Although I don’t know, is she squeamish? Maybe we can’t really force her to read the book.

[Danikka]
I think she is squeamish actually.

[Erin]
So maybe it’s not for her anyway.

[Danikka]
Yeah, she was saying when we talked to her the other day, she was squeamish, but yeah.

[Erin]
Oh, that’s right. Yeah. So top line, I loved the book. I devoured it.

[Danikka[
Yeah. Yeah. I think it took me two days to listen to it only because I was working. Otherwise, it would have been one of those books where I just sat and crocheted and listened to it all day.

[Erin]
Yeah.

[Danikka]
It was so, so good. I have it on ebook. I have it on my audio. And then I’m going to get the paperback as well.

[Erin]
I did think partway through, maybe even only two chapters in, it’ll be a comfort read, which I don’t know what that says about me that a book about serial killers is a comfort read.

[Danikka]
I know. I know. It has comfort read vibes. Yeah.

[Erin]
But it sounds ridiculous to call a serial killer a golden retriever, but Rowan has serious golden retriever vibes. I think when I wrote my review, I described him as a derpy Rottweiler, which I think is maybe more what he is than a golden retriever.

[Danikka]
Yes. Yes.

[Erin]
Yeah. He’s just so cute from the start, from literally the start.

[Danikka]
He literally, he walks in and she’s stuck with that corpse and is stinky and she’s covered in blood and he just like falls in love with her straight away.

[Erin]
Their meet cute is over a rotting corpse and she’s stuck in a cage.

[Danikka]
Yeah. Like a bird in a cage. Like it’s just the symbolism. And so he calls her Blackbird.

[Erin]
She’s singing Blackbird, isn’t she? When he walks in.

[Danikka]
I think she is. Yeah.

[Erin]
I think she is. Yeah. And he’s, I think serial killer name is the butcher of Boston or something.

[Danikka]
Yeah. He’s the butcher and she’s the orb weaver.

[Erin]
Yeah.

[Danikka]
Which is where the eyeballs and the skin ornaments come in.

[Erin]
It’s completely bananas. Like I never thought I would be fine reading a book about a serial killer who plucks out people’s eyeballs.

[Danikka]
Yeah.

[Erin]
And yet I was like, I’m on board with this. It’s fine.

[Danikka]
Yeah. Seriously. Like when I tell people that I love this book, they look at me like Danikka, you like this book? Like I watched the BBC Sherlock Holmes and was obsessed with that show. But I’m the kind of person where there’s a throwaway line where Sherlock says he won an empty house off of somebody, the cannibal. And then that night had nightmares about a cannibal chasing me through an empty house and eating my heart with a spoon.

That is how active my imagination is. Like that’s how easily I can have nightmares from things. Yeah. If they’re like high tension or whatever. But like, that is what we mean when we say that this book has all of this gory shit, but it is not scary. Like it doesn’t have that high tension. Like when he was dancing around with that guy’s mummified corpse of a mother

[Erin]
Oh my god

[Danikka]
And like scared him to death.

[Erin]
Cackling.

[Danikka]
I was killing myself laughing in that scene. Like I laughed out loud. I don’t laugh out loud in books. That doesn’t happen very often. And I was dying laughing. Like it was hilarious. That is how well she has written this book. She’s done a brilliant job.

[Erin]
Yeah. It’s funny. And it’s swoony.

[Danikka]
Yeah.

[Erin]
Even though they’re killing dudes.

[Danikka]
Yeah. That dude and how she like got revenge on him by like basically scaring him to death with his mother’s mummified corpse. Like he was chasing them with a chainsaw and yet it was believable that they were hiding in the barn and just chose that moment to make out.

[Erin]
A hundred percent.

[Danikka]
Like because the adrenaline was so high and like that’s what they were into. I didn’t even question that they chose that moment to make out even though he was chasing them with a chainsaw.

[Erin]
Or they made out when she literally has the guy who is chasing them with a chainsaw. His boot print on her face. Like she can make out the Carhartt logo of his boots on her face.

[Danikka]
Yeah.

[Erin]
But let’s make out in a barn when we’re being chased by a chainsaw-wielding serial killer. It’s fine. And there’s so many moments like that. Like I never thought that I would find myself laughing about cannibalism either. And yet there I was.

[Danikka]
And yet you’re dying laughing because Rowan is just chowing down and she’s like.

[Erin]
Stop it! Stop eating the beef carpaccio that is not beef carpaccio.

[Danikka]
Yeah. I made the mistake of reading, listening to that scene while I was eating dinner.

[Erin]
No.

[Danikka]
And I tell you what please just if you get to the scene if you haven’t read this book yet and you don’t mind spoilers when they go to eat dinner with the fancy man. Just don’t.

[Erin]
I can’t remember his name.

[Danikka]
I can’t remember his name either. Yeah. Just don’t listen to that part while you’re eating.

[Erin]
Which I mean reading it wasn’t too bad but yeah I can imagine that the like listening would be worse.

[Danikka]
Yeah it was pretty bad.

[Erin]
Yeah okay so we’ve said why we love it. Do we dive into what we would have changed?

[Danikka]
Yeah so just want to preface all of my criticisms by I loved the book. I think Bryn’s writing was absolutely brilliant and there was just so much in this book to love. I unequivocally I think gave it five stars. And I don’t give five stars to books. Like I don’t like people who are like oh I never give five stars. I’m stingy with five stars. I just plain don’t give books five stars because it’s really hard for me to switch editor brain off.

[Erin]
Yeah true.

[Danikka]
So it’s just it’s not because I’m stingy with my five stars. It’s just because to give you five stars you have to be able to switch my editor brain off. And with this book she did.

So that’s why I got five stars. But after I finished obviously Steph and I were talking about it and like you picked this up as well Erin. There was one big glaring issue and that was their spicy scene.

[Erin]
And it makes me sad that it was in the spicy scene.

[Danikka]
I know because it was a really good spicy scene.

[Erin]
It was.

[Danikka]
It was just everything was good.

[Erin]
When you weren’t thinking about logistics it was great. So the problem with the spicy scene. It happens after the aforementioned chainsaw chasing incident.

[Danikka]
Yeah. Chasing incident.

[Erin]
Sloane has a dislocated shoulder.

[Danikka]
And broken ribs.

[Erin]
And broken ribs.

[Danikka]
Yeah. And she’s been beaten up. Like she has a boot mark on her face.

[Erin]
She has a boot mark on her face. She’s got a dislocated shoulder. She’s got broken ribs. And he’s being really caring and everything. And he puts her in the bath. And then he loses his mind because she has piercings in lots of different places. And then they go at it. And at one point I think you pointed out she’s on her stomach. No she’s not.

[Danikka]
No.

[Erin]
She’s got broken ribs.

[Danikka]
Like doggy style anal is not happening. I’m sorry.

[Erin]
Not with a dislocated shoulder and broken ribs.

[Danikka]
No. It’s just not.

[Erin]
No. Like at the time. Not that I forgot that she was injured. But I think I sort of my brain set it aside. And then afterwards I was like hang on. They’ve gone to see his brother who’s a doctor to literally set her shoulder. And he’s like take it the fuck easy. You are very injured. And then they go at it for an entire night.

[Danikka]
Yeah.

[Erin]
Which more power to them. But.

[Danikka]
Yeah. They go at it for an entire night. So like that’s not the only thing that they do. No. They do a lot. Yeah. They do lots of things. So like that’s just what we see on the page. So I just think that that is just not realistic at all.

[Erin]
No.

[Danikka]
So.

[Erin]
It isn’t. Because that’s serial killers. Killing other serial killers. I understand that whole book is probably not realistic.

[Danikka]
Oh yes.

[Erin]
But there is the setting aside of. What’s it called? Suspension of disbelief. That’s fine. I could suspend my disbelief for literally everything else.

[Danikka]
Yeah exactly. I could suspend disbelief because it was realistic for their characters to be making out in a barn while they’re being chased by a serial killer with a chainsaw. But I can’t suspend disbelief about it getting fucked up the arse while your shoulder is dislocated.

[Erin]
And she has broken ribs.

[Dannika]
Exactly

[Erin]
Yeah. Agreed. If you take that out of it. If you take out the fact that she was injured. That scene was great.

[Danikka]
Yeah exactly. Everything else was perfect. Like their dynamic was great.

[Erin]
Yeah.

[Danikka]
Like the way that. Oh. Just like the way that he spoke to her. And oh my god. Listen please. Oh my god. If you are into. Even if you’re not into audiobooks. Just listen to this book on audio. And listen to that scene on audio. I’m begging you. It was amazing. Rowan’s voice. I’m going red. Like it was so good. Oh it was so good. But like yeah.

The whole thing was just really good. I just really enjoyed it. And I think the dynamic between them had been set up really well. Where something that had. Like when I was chatting about it with Steph. Because we debriefed after it. And because there is a bit of that like BDSM dub sub relationship. And something that is not done a lot in books. Is that kind of like explicit setup of that relationship. Like there’s that glamorization of maybe like forcing subs into that kind of relationship. And so maybe like that could have been done more explicitly.

[Erin]
Okay.

[Danikka]
But I think with these characters in particular. I think that they’d kind of set it up in their interactions across time. Like I think it was kind of made maybe for the sake of like not glamorizing consent should be implied. It should be. Yeah. I think maybe that should have been more obvious. Just so that then it’s not romanticizing that like people can be kind of coerced into that kind of situation.

[Erin]
Yeah.

[Danikka]
But that was just something I think maybe would be good to mention. Just because I am not in the BDSM scene and never have been.

[Erin]
No me either.

[Danikka]
So just coming from someone who was more aware of that kind of thing. That was something that I wouldn’t have thought to mention. So I thought I would point that out. I’m just trying to think if there’s anything else kind of around that scene. I don’t think there was. But related to that scene then I had more thoughts about what happened later in the book.

So like did you have anything else kind of around that? Was there anything else?

[Erin]
No no.

[Danikka]
You thought like that was your only thing? Yeah. Okay cool. Because I think from here my thoughts are more like editor thoughts.

[Erin]
Okay.

[Danikka]
So like because this is a coffee chat. It’s a buddy read. But like I think I’m going to kind of go into more like if I was the editor of this book. Because my editor brain got switched on after chatting with Steph. Because once you’re like well they shouldn’t have had this scene while she was injured.

It’s like well when could they have had this scene? Because obviously they needed to have this scene. Because they’ve had this slow burn up to this point.

[Erin]
Yes because this is this is also this is over years that they’ve known each other.

[Danikka]
It’s been four years by the time they have this spicy scene.

[Erin]
Yeah. It doesn’t it doesn’t feel like it’s been on the page.

[Danikka]
But yeah that’s how long it’s been. Yeah. So it’s like okay well they’ve waited four years to have this spicy scene together.

Why couldn’t he have waited another six weeks for her arm to heal and her ribs? You know? So it’s okay. Well what happens then after this scene? So after they have this scene he insists that she goes back with him to Boston. Instead of going back to her house.

I can’t remember where she lives. But she lives on her own.

[Erin]
In California.

[Danikka]
In California. So yeah he lives in Boston. She lives in California.

So instead of going back to California on her own to heal. He insists that she goes with him back to his place. So that’s what she does. And then we have this big time skip basically. Where she is in Boston and he’s like well you’ve been here this whole time you might as well go get your stuff from California and move in with me. And then that’s basically where we’re at. Is she’s healed and she’s in California collecting her stuff to go move in with him in Boston. That’s like where we go. So we miss this whole healing period.

We go from this kind of spicy scene to her having collecting her stuff and moving to Boston basically. I’m pretty sure is what happens.

[Erin]
Yeah I think you’re right.

[Danikka]
So to me it kind of all just felt very backwards. I was like why not have all of that kind of time jump be her healing time. Have the spicy scene be when she’s healed. They’ve just had this slow burn. Having that forced proximity of them being in his apartment in Boston. Not being able to do anything sexy for that whole time. Because she was healing. And then having that kind of okay well I’m feeling better now but he’s being restrained and then she had to seduce him.

Still could have had like a bathtub type seduction type scene. And then have the explosion when she’s fully healed. And then also like it kind of felt like he was almost forced her to move to Boston and then she just kind of accepted it. Which felt very out of character for her. Whereas if she had just made the choice well I’ve been here this whole time I’ve really enjoyed it. I just seduced him finally and like I’m really liking being here. I’m making the choice to kind of move here.

[Erin]
Yeah because also he’s a chef. So he has a restaurant that is in Boston. Whereas she, what does she do again?

[Danikka]
She’s a like a lab research type thing.

[Erin]
But she works kind of like remotely. Part of me was like why does it always have to be the woman who’s relocating for the man.

[Danikka]
Exactly yeah.

[Erin] But I get it for their jobs. But then also perhaps their jobs to be set up that way. So that she’s always going to be one way. But anyway

[Danikka]
Yes yeah that was kind of annoying. But also like the butcher black bird. Like she was the bird being set free and kind of choosing where she would go. Where she’d always kind of flipped her own wings and kind of kept herself stationary when she didn’t need to maybe.

[Erin]
She has one friend. She doesn’t have family. Like she was always a real loner. So the fact that she kind of accepted that so quickly did feel not a hundred percent out of character. But like oh yeah we’re just rolling with it.

[Danikka]
Yeah exactly. It was just kind of like we’ve had all this fantastic character build up. And then once they had that spicy scene it was like particularly her character just kind of unraveled.

[Erin]
Yeah

[Danikka]
And I didn’t really like that. I did like how she came in and saved the day at the end and everything.

[Erin]
Me too.

[Danikka]
I thought that was brilliant. And like how you kind of kept guessing. Like you didn’t really know whether she was acting or not.

[Erin]
So it is. I don’t want to call it a third act breakup. But it was.

[Danikka]
Yeah it was a third act breakup. But you weren’t sure if it was or not. Like yeah the way Brynne Weaver did that was really good.

[Erin]
Yeah. Because you knew like from one side you knew that he was doing it for a reason. And the twist. I think I sent you an all caps message.

[Danikka]
Yeah you did. You were like what the. You were like.

[Erin]
Oh my god. I need a moment.

[Danikka]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Erin]
Yeah. I really liked that end bit.

[Danikka]
And I like I saw the twist coming but I also didn’t. I kind of knew it was sus. But also it went on for so long that I was like oh well maybe it’s not sus.

[Erin]
Maybe it’s not sus.

[Danikka]
Yeah me too. Yeah. So I all of that was brilliant as well.

And it was almost I think like she didn’t really know how to write the move. It was like she didn’t know how to get them in the same place. Yeah. It was like how do I get Sloane to decide to move to Boston. I don’t really know. So I’m just gonna do the time jump and just make it happen.

[Erin]
Yeah.

[Danikka]
So I think that that was maybe what happened. Just in my opinion.

[Erin]
So I saw someone talking about when characters do stuff off the page. So I and I think it was in relation to Crescent City 2. Yeah. That there was there’s all this stuff that Bryce does it’s not on the page. And whoever I saw talking about it was like when an author has a character doing really important decision making and action off the page the character is too much for them.

[Danikka]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Erin]
And that did feel a little bit like not. Yeah.

[Danikka]
Yeah.

[Erin]
The rest of it was great. But yeah I wanted I wanted to see Sloane’s decision making in that part.

[Danikka]
Yeah. Because yeah it was like there was just this major change this major emotional shift that we just didn’t get to see. And I mean I think it’s traditionally published.

[Erin]
Yeah.

[Danikka]
So there could have been word length.

[Erin]
Maybe because it is very short and sharp. Like it’s a Yeah. I don’t know how many words it is but like it was a really.

[Danikka]
Yeah. It was very like very snappy. So I mean there could have been all sorts of things going into consideration that we’re not aware of. But like I do think yeah we’re kind of just missing that kind of middle act shift in the emotional journey. You don’t notice it when you’re reading it necessarily.

[Erin]
No. It’s only after

[Danikka]
When you’re thinking about it later.

[Erin]
The only other my like again after the fact bit was in the big dramatic part of the end. The bad guy. That’s actually the only bit that I don’t want to spoil. Like I actually don’t want to do that.

[Danikka]
Yeah. I don’t want to spoil that either. I’m like that is just such a big twist.

[Erin]
I know we said spoilers but maybe we’re going to keep that one under our hat.

[Danikka]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Erin]
Because it’s just too good. So when that happens. So there’s a comment made in the last chaos section about serial killers disappearing. But when I sort of thought back over the timeline of the thing only one would have disappeared when this person was referring to. And the more I unraveled it the more it bugged me.

[Danikka]
Yeah. Yeah. It’s a bit of a timeline continuity issue.

[Erin]
But it might just have been me.

[Danikka]
Yeah. Even if you count the dead body that they met over. Yeah. There’s only one other. So.

[Erin]
Yeah.

[Danikka]
So, there’s not even enough there to create a serial killer.

[Erin]
Yeah. And I think maybe I wanted. Like after the fact. I know that like four years is a long time. Like not. There’s probably not many. But like not many romance. So we go over it like period like that. But I wanted more. This is going to sound completely messed up. I wanted more killing.

[Danikka]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Erin]
Because so these are two people that when you meet them they talk about how much they enjoy killing other killers. Like they are completely invested in this thing. Hobby. Special interest. Whatever you want to call it. And then the only time you might see Sloane torturing someone one time. Maybe.

[Danikka]
There’s the one.

[Erin]
When she’s talking to Lark on the phone.

[Danikka]
Torturing on the phone. And then there’s. Yeah. She tortures the cannibal guy. And then she scares that guy to death.

[Erin]
But that’s part of the competition. Yeah. But that but the cannibal guy and the chainsaw guy. That’s the competition.

[Danikka]
Yeah.

[Erin]
And those competitions are happening 12 months apart.

[Danikka]
Yeah.

[Erin]
In between.

[Danikka]
There’s not much happening.

[Erin]
There is very little. There is very little happening.

[Danikka]
Yeah.

[Erin]
There’s like the day job. Which. No offense guys. No one wants to know about your day job. Although the scenes where they cook together are freaking adorable.

[Danikka]
Yeah.

[Erin]
Honestly it could have got. She could have gone harder on the blood and gore.

[Danikka]
Yeah. That’s interesting.

[Erin]
Now that I think about it.

[Danikka]
That’s interesting.

[Erin]
Yeah. Yeah. Because Sloane also makes the comment. Maybe when she’s talking about moving to Boston. About how she has not used her storage unit kill room. At all.

[Danikka]
Yeah. Because she’s getting. She’s getting that need met through her relationship with Rowan. That’s kind of what they’re. Yeah. I guess that’s kind of the point of the book though. Is that they kill because they’re not complete. And then they complete each other.

[Erin]
And they are completing one another.

[Danikka]
Yeah.

[Erin]
Love.

[Danikka]
Yeah. So I guess. If we want to look at it a different way. They’re healing each other and not being such messed up people.

[Erin]
They’re healing each other. Yeah. That’s nice. And having really rough sex when they’re injured.

[Danikka]
Yeah.

[Erin]
Healing. Healing emotionally. Not physically.

[Danikka]
Yeah.

[Erin]
That’s true. That’s true. So.

[Danikka]
Yeah. I don’t know. .

[Erin]
Anyway. So this is also the first in a series. So I am. I’m excited to read the brothers books.

[Danikka]
Because there’s. It follows Rowan’s two other brothers. Of the two other books that are coming.

[Erin]
Yes. But. In this book. Fionn has a girlfriend. So I am curious to see what happens there.

[Danikka]
Yeah.

[Erin]
Because Fionn is with the former circus actor person. Rose. Whatever her name is.

[Danikka]
They’re not together.

[Erin]
Oh. But you kind of get the impression at the end that they’re together. They’re. Do you not think?

[Danikka]
Interested. But they’re not together. That’s why Rowan’s like.

[Erin]
Oh. So you think we’ll. We’ll learn that in Fionn’s book. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So the next one is Leather and Lark. Which is. Lachlan and Lark. Who is. Sloane’s best friend.

[Danikka]
Yeah.

[Erin]
Which is a marriage of convenience. From what I’ve seen. Which I’m curious.

[Danikka]
It’ll be like a marriage. Let’s say like a mafia type.

[Erin]
Because marriage of convenience sometimes annoys me as a trope. Because I want the reason for the marriage to be solid.

[Danikka]
Yes.

[Erin]
And it needs to make sense. And I have the same opinion of fake dating. It needs to make sense for both parties. Like there needs to be equal stakes for both parties. Otherwise it’s like. Why are we doing this?

[Danikka]
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

[Erin]
Why are we in it?

[Danikka]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Erin]
They are. Marriage of convenience and fake dating are two of my favorite tropes. Because I love the idea of something being fake and then falling in love. But yeah. The reason needs to be solid.

[Danikka[
Yeah. It needs to be believable.

[Erin]
Yeah. Yeah. Even though fake dating is like not at all believable.

[Danikka]
Yeah.

[Erin]
Like generally.

[Danikka]
Exactly. Most people wouldn’t do it.

[Erin]
Again we’re putting aside. We’re putting that aside.

[Danikka]
Suspending disbelief.

[Erin]
Romance reasons. Romance reasons.

[Danikka]
Exactly. But that’s Butcher of Blackbird.

[Erin]
So that’s Butcher of Blackbird. That was pretty rambly. But it’s a great book. If you have the stomach for accidental and non-accidental cannibalism. Give it a go.

[Danikka]
And mummified mothers scaring their sons to death.

[Erin]
And mummified mothers. And eyeball. Eyeball plucking. Gouging. That was actually one of my favorite things was his continually saying that one of the eyeballs looks a little bit gouged out. She’s like, fuck you. I pluck eyeballs out. Like a lady.

[Danikka]
Yeah.

[Erin]
Exactly. That was actually one of my favorite things in it.

[Danikka]
That was so clever.

[Erin]
Yeah.

[Danikka]
But yeah. No. It was overall just I really enjoyed it. Fantastic writing. A hundred percent suspended belief for pretty much everything except for sex scenes.

[Erin]
For almost everything.

[Danikka]
Which I mean considering all of the fucked up shit that happens. Like well done. Well done. Not many people could have done that.

[Erin]
A hundred percent.

[Danikka]
Like. Yeah. Yeah.

[Erin]
I was totally fine reading about people’s eyeballs being plucked out.

[Danikka]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Erin]
And then seeing their skin hanging from a fishing line.

[Danikka]
Yeah. Weird.

[Erin]
Yeah. Like yeah. This is fine. This is totally fine. I’m on board. I love this. What? What? I’m on her side.

[Danikka]
Exactly.

[Erin]
That should not. Yeah. So I look forward to Leather and Lark. But Lark is a singer isn’t she? So there’ll probably be less gore.

[Danikka]
Yeah. I would say. Yeah. In the next book. So maybe yeah if you’re squeamish.

[Erin]
Look we’ll probably read the next one as well.

[Danikka]
Yeah. We probably will.

[Erin]
And come back and talk about it.

[Danikka]
All right. Well thank you so much for listening and we’ll see you in the next episode.

[Erin]
Bye.

[Danikka]
Thank you for listening to The Snail Dung. Brought to you by Authors Own Publishing, the home of indie publishing. Don’t forget to subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts and follow us on Instagram at Authors Own Publishing.

Music brought to you by Mikkel with more details in the show notes.